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July 01, 1995

Trivia #18 - Published July 1995


TCS Trivia #18


This is part of a series on Skiing and Ski Area TRIVIA. It is posted separately from our companion series on "LOST SKI AREAS", "THE COLORADO SKIER - SKI NEWS", and "TCS LISTS". Check 'em out.



A. Once again, right up front, we want to thank three more folks who sent us care packages: JC (FL), ROBERT (IN), and AUSTIN (TX). Robert supplied our first map from a ski area in Indiana (SKI WORLD) and Austin supplied the first from an area in North Carolina (CATALOOCHEE). Among many other items JC provided a neat, old, brochure from the LANSING SKI CLUB, circa 1960. JC and I are both from Lansing, MI - altho he tries to pretend that we are a generation apart in age. He claims that his Mother went to high school with our (much older) Sister and that his Uncle went to MSU when we did. We are 39 years old. That's our story and we're sticking to it!

B. Some of you long time readers may remember references to our crack field agents Boris and Natasha, and other references to "Rocky and His Friends" in past issues. Surprise! Check out new trivia question #1 (thanks to PAUL T).

C. We are in the midst of sending personal thank you notes to folks who sent trail maps but haven't gotten to everyone. Talk to you soon.

D. Some of the data in this post was obtained from "THE WHITE BOOK OF SKI AREAS", which is copyrighted by Inter-Ski Services, Inc.


a. At which SKI AREAS are the following ski trails located?
1) Rocky's Run, Bullwinkle, Boris Badenov, Natasha's Niche, Peabody's Pass, Dudley-Do-Right, Snidley Whiplash

2) Penny Lane, Strawberry Fields, Rocky Raccoon, Revolution, Help, Long Winding Road

b. Probably all of you have ridden one or more of the 30 or so "Alpine Slides" in the U.S. They are built at ski areas because chairlifts are needed to transport riders and sleds to the top of the slide. Trivia Question: WHERE are there Alpine Slides NOT located at ski areas?

c. What is the NAME and location of the farthest NORTH alpine ski area in North America?

d. WHERE are these runs located and WHOM were they named after:

  2. DAVE'S


e. Remember the list of ski areas which share the same ridge?
DAVID (NY) suggests the ultimate ridge: Name all the SKI AREAS on the CONTINENTAL DIVIDE (past or present). To prevent nit-picking we will count any area within one mile of the Divide. Hint: Two areas have appropriate names.

BONUS ONE: (open question) Name all the ski areas where the base lodge and parking are at the top of the mountain rather than at the bottom.

SUMMER BONUS: There are large BUSCH GARDENS amusement parks in Virginia and Florida. There used to be another Busch Gardens, located in a major tourist area, but now deceased. WHERE?

SPORTS BONUS: You probably noted that the French Open tennis tournament was played at "Stade Roland Garros". Who was ROLAND GARROS and what was his contribution to the world of trivia?


a. At which WINTER OLYMPICS was the "bobsled" NOT contested?
ANSWER: The 4-man bobsled was contested at EVERY Winter Olympics except the 1960 event at Squaw Valley, CA. Only 9 countries signed up and Cushing couldn't afford to build a track. BTW, the same thing would have happened at the 1976 Denver Olympics. The DOOC wanted to hold the bobsleigh event at Lake Placid but the IOC said no and the event was canceled. [Instant Trivia: Janket Kunczynski (YAN chairs) is the son-in-law of Alex Cushing]

GUESSES: Only PAUL (MN) and MICHAEL (UT) knew this one.

b. At which SKI AREA(s) are the following trails:
1) High Noon, One O'clock, Two O'clock, Three O'clock, Rolex
2) Cyclone, Hurricane, Tornado, Twister, Typhoon

ANSWER: Both sets of trails are at STEAMBOAT, CO. DAVID (NY) points out that the first set (along with Daybreak and Twilight) is on "Sunshine Peak" and the 2nd set is, of course, on "Storm Peak".

GUESSES: Rick, Bill (CA), Judith, Curtis, and David knew the answer. Paul (MN), Jim B, and John K knew the "Sunshine Peak" half.
Note: CURTIS (MD) questioned "Typhoon". That trail was just added in 1994. It is a short gladed run between Cyclone and Tornado.

c. Where does the name "POMA" come from?

ANSWER: The French ski lift company was named after its founder, "JEAN POMAGALSKI"

GUESSES: There were lots of really bad guesses. Preventing a shutout, JACK (Anacortes, WA) offered the name "JAN Pomagalski".

d. WHERE are these trails and WHOM were they named after?

"The Skipper": VAIL, CO - Named (nickname) after the founder of THE VAIL TRAIL (local weekly newspaper), George Knox, Sr.
"Terry's Trail": WATERVILLE VALLEY, NH - Named after Terry Palmer, former member of the U.S. Alpine Ski Team.
"Maxie's": TAOS, NM - Named after Maxie Anderson, member of the first balloon crew to successfully cross the Atlantic Ocean.
"Peggy Dow's Hymnbook": BOLTON VALLEY, VT - Named after the wife of an early area pastor named Lorenzo Dow. Note: Some later trail maps, to save space, call the trail just "Peggy Dow", but all of our 60's, 70's, and early 80's maps show "Hymnbook".

GUESSES: Another pathetic showing! BENJIE (CA) and LOIS (who patrols there) knew the Bolton Valley trail. That's it. GLENN (Troy, NY) provided some strange answers starting with The Skipper from Gilligan's Island and it went downhill from there.

e. WHERE and WHEN was the first COVERED CHAIRLIFT?

ANSWER: The first one in Colorado was at COPPER MOUNTAIN, in 1972. However, MT. SNOW, VT had a covered chairlift as early as 1957.

GUESSES: Rick (CO) offered Copper; Glenn knew Mt. Snow; and folks mentioned other early covered lifts at Boyne Highlands, MI and Mont St. Anne, PQ. We expected Bill Hery to mention courting his future wife within the enclosed confines at Mt. Snow but apparently those stories would have been R-rated.

BONUS ONE: (Open Question) NAME any SKI LIFT/SKI AREA where the lift can be ridden in BOTH DIRECTIONS for the purpose of gaining elevation for skiing. Access lifts (such as at Loveland and Sugar Bowl) don't count. We know of one such ski lift in CO, two in CA, and SCOTT (CO), who suggested the question, knows of two in WA.

ANSWER: The #6 lift on Golden Peak at VAIL can be ridden up the front side or up the back side from chair 10. It's profile is an inverted Vee. At HEAVENLY VALLEY, the Waterfall/Patsy's and Powder Bowl/Groove chairs have extensions serving bunny hills. The profile is a Vee. The ones in Washington are at HYAK (?) and STEVENS PASS (Southern Cross). Scott (CO) suggests Gondola 2 at KEYSTONE. Technically you could ride it in either direction and then "ski down" but in one direction it would be losing elevation so we don't think it qualifies. It is really an access lift. Two folks suggested a lift at MT BRIGHTON, MI. Jan-Erik mentioned MT BAKER (C-3 chair, inverted Vee) and the Weasel chair at Alpine Meadows. JC offered a defunct lift at The Lansing Ski Club. John (Montreal) suggested a T-bar at FORTRESS MTN, AB. JIM B likes DEER VALLEY ("Clipper" chair?).

GUESSES: Besides the contributions mentioned above, 5 folks correctly guessed Chair 6 at VAIL. Jonathan offered the "Lookout" chair at SUN VALLEY. Altho it can be ridden in both directions, it only rises in one. Curtis suggested the new access chair in Jordan Bowl at SUNDAY RIVER. Same answer. (Wasn't someone going to send us an SR trail map?)

BONUS TWO: (Open Question) Which ski areas (if any) have ski runs on ( snow-covered) PAVED roads?

ANSWER/GUESSES: Tom Moore suggested this question by mentioning MT WACHUSETT, MA. The run is "Mass Pike"? Dave (NY) seconded. "Toll Road" at STOWE. Four folks guessed this one. Our guide book says that it isn't paved, but hey, who cares. "Toll Road" at BURKE MTN, VT. 4 folks named this one. We don't know if it is paved. JMK (CT) remembers a mountain road at OKEMO. One summer we noticed a chairlift rising out of a paved parking lot at MAMMOTH. We wondered how the skiers got back to the chair. DAN says the pavement is snow covered in winter and is actually the road to Minaret Summit - closed in winter.


a. SNEAKY TRIVIA Answer (What was the planned name for Vermont): When the "New Hampshire Grants" decided to become a state (well after the original 13), Ethan Allen picked the name "New Connecticut". FWIW, CT has 12 towns starting with the word "NEW", 4 with "OLD", and 99 starting with North, East, West, or South. Just thought you'd want to know.

b. OK, last time for CAPTAIN MARVEL. His alter ego was "Billy Batson", orphan newsboy. At a flea market we asked a comic book seller if he had any Captain Marvel comic books. He replied that he didn't carry anything THAT OLD. No wonder you guys don't know this stuff.

c. DAVID (NY) wondered if there is any ski area which DOESN'T give fancy names to their HS Quads (e.g., "Kick-Ass Express"). Good question. The only area we can think of is MAMMOTH MTN (CA) which NUMBERS all of their lifts (no names) and does have 2 HS quads. Others?

d. SNAVELY (COS) observed that OKEMO (VT) has 8 chairlifts and none is a Double! SNEAKY TRIVIA (open question): Are there any other ski areas with a least 5 chairs and no doubles?

e. MARK (CO) asked about a KEYSTONE (CO) chairlift accident. It happened during the 85-86 season on the YAN-built "Teller" triple chair which returns skiers from North Peak. All YAN chair are "bull-wheel loading" types with overhead motors and bull wheels (look up if you dare!). One of the two bull wheels fell off its axle. It didn't hit anyone but the subsequent vibration in the cable knocked several folks from chairs and one was killed.
The chair was rebuilt (presumably free by YAN) and was renamed "Ruby". Keystone has never installed another YAN chair and, in fact, in 1986 tore down their 2 year old YAN gondola and replaced it with a VON ROLL.
Mark asked about other ski lift accidents. We covered that subject a few years back (but could repeat some day). We can say that cables "never" break (2 cases) but chairs and gondola cars do fall. [Remind us to discuss "cable-splicing" some time.]

f. Where does the word "trivia" come from? Back when all roads lead to Rome, there was one place where two roads joined to make a third road in a "Y" configuration. Folks used to leave messages on the rocks at the intersection for their friends and relatives like: "We plan to catch the Lions at the Coliseum - if you miss us there, we are staying at Caesar's Palace". or: "Meet us for dinner at VII PM at the Roman Villa." Since three roads came together there, this location became known as "tri via" ("three roads") and the notes became the "messages at tri via" or eventually just "trivia". (Isn't this fun?)


We have mentioned several times how much fun it is to do these newsletters, mainly due to the feedback from you loyal readers. One of the few disappointments, however, is the realization that not all of you get to read every issue. We know this because of the requests for trivia which we have already covered, and the offer of "lost" ski areas already covered in previous issues.

For the record, concerning lost NH ski areas: MITTERSILL was covered in Lost 15 (5/94), MOOSE MTN and SNOW CREST were covered in Lost 16 (8/94), and MT WHITTIER was covered in Lost 17 (1/95). We have not covered WHALEBACK because we believe it to still be open.

a. Follow-up on INTERVALE (NH): It was located east of the town of Lower Bartlett, 3 miles north of where "Intervale" appears on maps.

b. MATT (MI) wondered how many lost ski areas in Michigan. Our current count is "71 and climbing" which is among the top 5 for all states. Matt also asked about a specific ski area near Fenton, MI. That would be KANDAHAR SKI CLUB (private) which operated in the late 70's. 260 ft vertical, 1 T-bar, 8 rope tows

c. NEBRASKI, NE - TOPE (IL) asked about this "lost" area. Opened in 1980 as TRAIL RIDGE, in Gretna, NE, about 30 miles SW of Omaha. Changed to the current cornball name in 1991. Vertical Drop 200 ft. 1 double chair, 4 surface lifts. Still open. [Note to you Easterners without a clue: Omaha is a major city in Nebraska, roughly halfway between Chicago and Denver. Nebraska? That's a state ..... Dumb Trivia: Who can name anything that Omaha is famous for?]


Colorado ski areas had their 3rd best year in history in terms of Skier Days - Down 1.26% from last season.

It was a good Spring snow year in the West and lousy in the East. Six Western ski areas stayed open until July Fourth, including MT BACHELOR, ALPINE MEADOWS, and MAMMOTH. As we write, TIMBERLINE and A- BASIN are STILL open daily and SQUAW VALLEY is open on weekends. This is a record year which will exceed the 1993 season when 4 areas stayed open till July Fourth plus TIMBERLINE which stayed open through Labor Day.

In the East, SUNDAY RIVER packed it in early. KILLINGTON made it to 4 June (with only one lift and one run) and only got around to reporting "some walking", but not "thin and bare spots". (Not sure why they bother).

A-BASIN, CO has broken their previous latest close of 4 July. Thru 15 June they had top to bottom skiing, 4 of 5 lifts running, and had ALL 65 trails open. Impressive! Currently it is a 33 inch midway base, 50% of trails open, and 2 or 3 lifts depending on need.

ASPEN MTN re-opened for the Memorial Day weekend and was open weekends thru June.


a. VAIL - The new so-called CAT III back bowl expansion at VAIL is still a few years off. This season Vail will be converting Chair 3 (Hunky Dory) from a fixed grip quad to a detachable quad.

b. BEAVER CREEK - The plan to connect ARROWHEAD with BEAVER CREEK is also a year or two away. This year a new chairlift will be built in the Bachelor Creek region, between the two areas. It is mostly being built to serve condos.

c. BRECKENRIDGE - Plans a new chair and small base area at the bottom of 4 O'clock run to serve condos. Won't happen in 95. Long range they are looking at running a gondola from town to the Peak 8 base. Both of these are "parking problem" solutions.

d. STEAMBOAT - Announced "non-plans". They were hit by the lack of airline commuter service and a less than average snow year.

e. COPPER MTN - Last year Copper replaced two double chairs with a HS Quad and promised that they would install the two chairs in "Copper Bowl" (new terrain) for the 95/96 season. Due to a so-so season they are now thinking of postponing.

f. Aspen Ski Corp pulled its 4 ski areas out of Colorado Ski Country USA, the Colorado marketing and snow reporting group. Sad. Also they withdrew from World Cup Ski Racing, canceling the famous "America's Downhill" race. (VAIL immediately applied for and won the downhill. There will be six (6) men's and women's World Cup races at Vail this season.)

g. BIG SKY, MT - A new reader (RANDY, IL) reports plans for a 15 passenger Doppelmayr tram to the top of the mountain and BIG SKY claims it will give them the most vertical drop and ski acreage in the U.S. IF the tram goes to the very tippy top, the new vertical will be 4196 feet which would beat JACKSON HOLE by 57 feet. Their current size is 2500 acres. With just the one new lift on top we don't see them adding enough acreage to come even close to the size of VAIL, SQUAW VALLEY, or HEAVENLY VALLEY.

h. MAD RIVER GLEN - The sale is proceeding. Is supposed to be consummated in the Fall.

i. SUNDAY RIVER - Has announced plans to add another chair and trails in what they call the "OZ" area between Aurora and Jordan.

j. BURKE MOUNTAIN, VT - Is for sale. Rumor says they are selling off property to pay taxes.

k. KING RIDGE, NH - The current operator has turned the area over to the lenders. They were marginally successful until this last lousy snow season. They gave up early so that the bank would have time to find another operator. One reader heard the terrain was going condo but that's probably just a rumor based on the financial failure.

l. MT. CRANMORE, NH - The owner of SUNDAY RIVER, et al, is in the process of buying the venerable North Conway ski area.

m. NEMACOLIN WOODLANDS, PA - CURTIS (MD) says that this classy golf resort (near Uniontown, PA) will be adding ski slopes in 1996. (How does that strange name relate to the "Nemacolin Castle" tourist attraction farther west on US 40?

Note: Feel free to submit your inside skinny on what's new at your local ski area. We would ask one favor. If you can, try to qualify the accuracy of your source. In early summer lots of plans are announced that are not implemented. A few years ago CRESTED BUTTE announced a new quad and built a hotel instead. Last year LOON announced a new chair and some new runs and did nothing, noting later that these were "long range" plans. Thx.


Here is some news on various people lifts:

a. DENVER - There is a "gondola" at the "new" (re-located) ELITCH GARDENS amusement park in downtown Denver. This is really a horizontal chairlift, with unique molded plastic 2 passenger chairs with parasol tops.

b. KEYSTONE, SD - Has a chairlift with views of Mt Rushmore. It would appear from pictures that a few chairs are attached close together fixed grip style. This may mean a slow boarding or full stop multiple chair boarding system but probably doesn't mean a classic "to and fro" tram type action as that would mean the chairs would have to travel backward. Anyone seen this one?

c. SCOTT (GA) reports that the RACCOON MOUNTAIN Campground (Chattanooga, TN) has an old single car tram, no longer in use. It was originally built (by U.S. Steel) to service a Government facility on a nearby hill, then used from 1960 to 1984 to transport folks to the top of Mt. Aetna to a hang-gliding facility. We note that the guide books still talk about the hang-gliding facility.

d. DOUG (CA) saw a "people mover" at MAMMOTH. It was labeled YAN and was meant to transfer skiers between the various base areas - and eventually to town (Mammoth Lakes). First we've heard of this one. One of the late spring snow reports said "the people mover is now closed". Separately, Doug also questioned whether KRATKA RIDGE has electricity. Well, the lifts may be diesel powered, but the area has a restaurant which requires electricity for refrigeration, lights, designer coffee makers, incense burners, etc.

e. Sometimes when we receive unsolicited news items we don't print them until we can confirm them from another source. Two years ago when we were doing stuff on mountain railways and funiculars someone (?) mentioned a funicular near Altoona, PA. It wasn't listed in our AAA guides. Finally we read about it in a recent issue of "TRAINS" magazine (yes we do have other hobbies). At the famous "Horseshoe Curve" west of Altoona there is a museum and view point and the funicular travels between them. Thanks to whomever.

f. EL PASO, TX - Older maps show a sightseeing tram on Ranger Peak to the north of town. It has disappeared from recent maps.

g. BENJIE (CA) asked about the "Castlerock" chairlift at SUGARBUSH. He says it looked unique. Had the motor above, in a little shack with gingerbread. We never saw it. Anyone?

h. CAIRNGORM (Scotland) - NATHAN (Scotland) reports that the "skis off, sideways sitting" chairlift still operates. The area is thinking of replacing it with a funicular.


WHAT'S IN A NAME - Recent Discoveries from random research

a. One of the major California ski areas is located in a town once called "BIJOU". Sneaky Trivia: "Which SKI AREA and what is the TOWN called now?"

b. A possible "lost" Canada ski area is just outside the city of FORT WILLIAM (pop. 45,000) which is next to the city of PORT ARTHUR (pop. 45,000). Much to our surprise neither of these cities appears on current maps. SNEAKY TRIVIA: What happened to them? (Note: The words avalanche, fire, flood, famine, war, and pestilence do not figure in the answer.)

c. We had always thought that "HOGADON" (ski area in Casper, WY) was an Indian name. Turns out that "John C Hogadon" was an early 1900's miner who built the first highway up Casper Mtn to reach his claim. When the townsfolk built the ski area, they named it after him.

d. MT HOOD names - Early settlers traveling the Oregon Trail discovered that the prices for traveling by boat or toll road along the Columbia River were exorbitantly high. Around 1845, Samuel K. Barlow built a road to the south of Mt Hood, providing a shorter and cheaper route to the Willamette Valley. The road was a success (summer only) and later David R. COOPER, sensing an interest by folks in seeing the snow and glaciers up on the Mtn, built a side road up the northeast flank. It became known as "Cooper's Spur". There is a ski area there now known as "COOPER SPUR".
There are 10 major glaciers on Mt Hood. The one best known by skiers is "Palmer Glacier", at the top of TIMBERLINE. For years it was thought of as a snow field until, in 1924, a mild winter and warm summer revealed the glacier characteristics such as crevasses. The Mt. Hood glaciers are receding at about 15 feet a year which "should" mean the end of Palmer Glacier and summer skiing in about 300 years.(!) However, measurements have shown that Palmer is NOT receding and that's why it is generally referred to as a permanent snow field, not a glacier. It was named for Joel PALMER who worked for road builder Barlow. Just remember the next time you ski TIMBERLINE in late summer - There are crevasses!

e. PUZZLE - What do the following items have in common: Baretta's cockatoo, Inventor of the J-bar, Roseanne's brother-in-law, ski run at Sandia Peak where skier died after colliding with snowboarder, cheap soft drink in the Pepsi "Field of Dreams" commercial.

f. LIVE FREE AND PUKE - We assume that many of you were in attendance at Claremont, NH for the public forum featuring "Slick" and the "Newt-Man". All politics aside, did you check out ARROWHEAD SKIWAY? We have it dying in 1990 but one loyal reader says it looks freshly painted to him. ???

g. REMEMBER TELEPHONES? - We had a nice telephonic conversation with loyal reader JOHN K (MN) on 7/3. He was staging thru COS on the way to/from his base camp in Salida. There, he spent a day white water rafting on the Arkansas River (big water this year) and 3 days mountain biking. We had hoped to slam a few Silver Bullets but it didn't work out. John is the first loyal reader (other than relatives) we have talked to.


a. Someone asked if we could repeat the entire list of lost NH ski areas. Perhaps. Not with all data, it would take several pages. But maybe just the area name and city - we will have to look at the logistics.

b. VICKIE (OR) asked about an out of the way ski area southwest of Denver. Based on the data provided, it would be GENEVA BASIN, which closed in 1984. Vertical Drop of 1250 ft. 2 chairs, 2 Pomas.

c. DUNCAN (Perth) [our first writer from Western Australia] heard that Saudan didn't mind his name being used for a trail name at BLACKCOMB - if he got paid for that privilege.

d. Besides "bagging" new ski areas, JIM (MD) wonders if others try to "notch" each and EVERY ski trail at an area. He tries to, as long as the trail names don't include the words: "chute", "couloir", "death", or "devil"(!). Sounds like a plan. We personally have never tried to ski all trails (got to rethink that) but we do try to never repeat a run on a given day.

e. CURTIS (MD) wonders if the (summer only) 2 passenger gondola at LAKE LOUISE, AB still exists. Yes. It starts well below the main parking lot and ends at the Whitehorn Lodge on the mountain. It crosses few ski trails so from a distance, without gondola cars, probably looks like a power line.

f. We kidded about the "Swaboda" tram at Jackson Hole and wondered if he played 3rd base for the Mets. BRUCE (where is my SR trail map?) says Ron Swoboda was just a DH, not good enough to play infield. RICK says Ron was a pitcher when he (Rick) "managed" against him in HS in Maryland. "Team Manager" in HS? Isn't that where the debate team nerd is used as a water boy and "gopher"?


We color highlight (in green) the compliments that the newsletter receives. Scanning the list recently we noted one phrase which dominates: "Keep Up The Good Work". We like that one for three reasons: 1) You want us to Continue - and we shall. 2) You call it "Work". It is work but it is our major hobby and it is a labor of love. 3) You consider it "Good". Thank you. Here are three other compliments that caught our eye recently:

a. "I just wanted to say that I have found your posts to be well written, extremely accurate, and quite fun to read. My wife agrees." Ron & Alecia, Chicago. (Do these two really agree?)

b. "Please add me to the mailing list for this most excellent, entertaining, well researched and wonderful creation." This came from "Skip" at SUNDAY RIVER, ME. Skip works in communications at SR (you know, he puts up the "Lot Full" signs) Apparently Skip was not a reader when we trashed the SR recorded snow report! (or he has a good sense of humor)

c. One writer, also in the ski industry, used a quote: "Genius is an infinite capacity for taking pains." Wow! BTW, he was referring to the lost ski area research, not the newsletter. Well, if taking pains, and having a passion for your subject, leads to quality work, we plead guilty.

Thank you all for the kind words - it keeps us going.


a. Please provide your city name (and your own name) when FIRST writing to TCS. (New informal rule - specific questions will be answered only from folks with identifiable names and towns.)

b. If you would like to receive your own personal E-mail copy of TCS newsletters, just ask Mark to subscribe you.

c. Due Next: "TCS - Lists 5" (about 1 August)

Cheers from The Colorado Skier

"Have you ever noticed how much Brad Pitt looks like Kato Kaelin?"

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